I considered myself a flat earther for a while: initially to be provocative, but also because it represented a more substantial foundation from which to build a cosmology around (finding out they want us to believe we are travelling through space at 66,600 miles an hour or whatever sealed the deal). Interesting that you mention you lean towards globe because of direct observation, because it is the opposite for me: I perceive our physical world to be stationary and the luminaries rotating around us, which immediately de-validates the official story. I found Dubay and Weiss both make compelling cases overall, but leave themselves open to dismissal with their weaker arguments that they still push as hard as everything else.
I moved out of the globe/flat dichotomy when I got into Simulation Theory, and the possibility/probability that our whole sky is simulated: a series of light operating as a grand sky clock, with overlays (such as your moon example) to provide red herrings about the true nature of our realm. There are some very interesting theories about our sun and moon being connected anodes and cathodes: the moon sucks up the energy created by humanity, and then passes it on to the sun in cycles (why it waxes and wanes). Anyway, all theories, but mind expanding nonetheless, which is the ultimate point of the exercise in my opinion, given we will never know for sure. Thanks for taking on the subject: and I am as pissed off by religionist flat earthers as much as you are.
Thanks for taking the time to describe your journey and current position. I know I come across as militant towards religionist or similar positions that are overly reliant on faith but it's really a defensive response to what I see as a mass gaslighting operation to lead people away from common sense and logic and into ideologies that can easily be attacked by governments and whatever Scientism they are currently pushing.
On a personal level, I have come up with my own philosophical view which can be summed up as frequency-based manifest reality unfolding from base level (eternal irreducible pure consciousness) where reality is an emergent construct (rather than a simulation which is a copy of something that already exists) contained within the mind of God (pure consciousness).
All I want is for empirical evidence-based observation to take center stage again. Scientism and Faith have become two extremes at odds with each other. For now, logic tells me that liquid forms coalesce into ball shapes and that makes the most sense to me without actually referring to any science that proves that assumption 100%.
For me it requires a huge leap of faith to believe that the "tiny light" in the sky over the flat earth realm is revolving in concentric circles that widen and contract in accordance with the seasons. The ball model explains everything we observe far more simply and elegantly without resorting to magical explanations for why the sun doesn't shoot off at a tangent instead of continuing its strange circular path for no reason at all.
Flat Earthers say you simply have to accept it and that the moon is just a flat image and the stars nearby luminaries. But shooting stars and craters on the moon and Earth and the different stars in the southern hemisphere tells us a different story. Why not simply accept the story that the construct is conveying to us every single day, month and year that goes by.
I'm writing a flat earth novel later this year called Miranda the Panda complete with extended outer worlds beyond the ice wall and god like alien creators. Obviously it's just for fun but you never know... might kick off a new wave of interest in this subject.
Flat earth novel! Very keen to check that out when it completes itself.
I accept that the globe model explains (mostly) the movements and changes of the luminaries (I don't think I could even accept that the sun just happens to be at the exact millions of miles away so as to be perfectly eclipsed by the moon, which is why it makes more sense that they are both local and in direct proportion). I find Tycho Brahe's geocentric model very interesting, and useful as a hybrid position between both sides. I know he has apparently been debunked but he at least produced his theories based on a highly advanced process of direct observation.
Ultimately, I don't think we are here to get to the bottom of what shape our home planet is. There are far more urgent tasks at hand!
Just to add about the relative positions of planets and so on. Obviously there appears to be some trickery going on with the numbers involved but the rest makes sense to me in terms of objects settling down into states and patterns until equilibrium is achieved much like water settling into a state of "flatness" when viewed from a human perspective but a wider view would show curvature.
We're told that the moon is rotationaly locked with the Earth so that we always see the same side. I always struggled with that one! Why would the moon and supposedly other moons in the solar system settle down into that pattern?
And we happen to exist at the perfect moment in time for all of this to be just so.
I'll accept whatever the truth is when we reach a definite conclusion. And if that's not possible then at least we tried.
Moon conspiracies (Lunarcies) are my absolute favourite. I'm convinced that it is a key part of the control system and "negatively" orientated, so to speak: there seems to be a consistent narrative through ancient mythology that it is not a natural object and was placed as it is for nefarious reasons. Maybe both sides can start there - as fellow lunartics - and expand to a more unified cosmology.
Oh I think it's of utmost importance! If we can't even solve this little riddle then what else do we think we know about our existence without really knowing it. We have been indoctrinated about so many things since day one and here we are now expecting to unravel all the more important mysteries when we're not even sure about the surface we stand on.
I would like to see independent scientists, engineers, amateur astronomers battle this topic out until we have definitive, undeniable proof for the whole world to see.
I would like to see the same happen for the topic of virology and germ theory.
Then we could repeat the process with nuclear weapons.
And who or what is truly behind the agenda that is now so openly unfolding.
And so on and so forth.
Imagine a world where these topics and many others are cleared up once and for all and then we can focus on a deeper level of understanding through meditation, improving health and basic living conditions for all.
The problem I foresee is that millions or billions of people could or would most likely lose their will to engage with the system that has been built around us. Many would prefer to drop out and live simpler lives (if that is even possible at that stage).
I can certainly imagine another outcome where the evolution of our technology takes center stage and leaves pesky humans in the dust. I am all for the automation of undesirable work. At the moment it looks like that path leads to dystopian hell on Earth but maybe that's just another boogeyman to get us to react in a more positive fashion.
What I don't like is being played in that way as if we're being tested. The next generation appear to love their techno slavery and very few question anything at all so I'm not even sure what we're supposed to be fighting for here other than getting personal kicks out of being a bit rebellious.
The Flat Earth thing is most certainly a psyop, I offered a substantial monetary prize to ANYONE who could overcome my proof that it is not FLAT to an independent panel of VERY brilliant people . No one e took me up on the offer . Ive flown over the N. POLE , Ive been out of my body and seen the earth from that perspective as well , it aint flat. I have had military friends show me similar TRAINING PSYOPS they had to create.
I've had out of body experiences too. Not sure I would use that as proof that the world is a ball but who knows, maybe it's more reliable than other methods I don't have access to.
What was your proof that the earth is not flat? Or is it a trade secret?
I want to tackle other truther religious beliefs such as chemtrails but it's really hard to find solid debunking material that is not produced by true believers in mainstream scientism. Chemtrailers dismiss scientific explanations for contrail phenomena based on where the info is coming from.
People also believe that demolitions were used on 9/11. I don't. There's no evidence to back that claim but it's a popular truther belief that sticks around.
Nuclear weapons don't exist IMO so that could be another topic to cover.
I also think pathogenic viruses are another fiction created to manipulate people with fear.
Hopefully one day we'll have the answers to all of these questions. I agree with you that panels of very knowledgeable people should battle it out face to face instead of internet warriors jumping to conclusions that are more often than not completely unfounded.
I considered myself a flat earther for a while: initially to be provocative, but also because it represented a more substantial foundation from which to build a cosmology around (finding out they want us to believe we are travelling through space at 66,600 miles an hour or whatever sealed the deal). Interesting that you mention you lean towards globe because of direct observation, because it is the opposite for me: I perceive our physical world to be stationary and the luminaries rotating around us, which immediately de-validates the official story. I found Dubay and Weiss both make compelling cases overall, but leave themselves open to dismissal with their weaker arguments that they still push as hard as everything else.
I moved out of the globe/flat dichotomy when I got into Simulation Theory, and the possibility/probability that our whole sky is simulated: a series of light operating as a grand sky clock, with overlays (such as your moon example) to provide red herrings about the true nature of our realm. There are some very interesting theories about our sun and moon being connected anodes and cathodes: the moon sucks up the energy created by humanity, and then passes it on to the sun in cycles (why it waxes and wanes). Anyway, all theories, but mind expanding nonetheless, which is the ultimate point of the exercise in my opinion, given we will never know for sure. Thanks for taking on the subject: and I am as pissed off by religionist flat earthers as much as you are.
Thanks for taking the time to describe your journey and current position. I know I come across as militant towards religionist or similar positions that are overly reliant on faith but it's really a defensive response to what I see as a mass gaslighting operation to lead people away from common sense and logic and into ideologies that can easily be attacked by governments and whatever Scientism they are currently pushing.
On a personal level, I have come up with my own philosophical view which can be summed up as frequency-based manifest reality unfolding from base level (eternal irreducible pure consciousness) where reality is an emergent construct (rather than a simulation which is a copy of something that already exists) contained within the mind of God (pure consciousness).
All I want is for empirical evidence-based observation to take center stage again. Scientism and Faith have become two extremes at odds with each other. For now, logic tells me that liquid forms coalesce into ball shapes and that makes the most sense to me without actually referring to any science that proves that assumption 100%.
For me it requires a huge leap of faith to believe that the "tiny light" in the sky over the flat earth realm is revolving in concentric circles that widen and contract in accordance with the seasons. The ball model explains everything we observe far more simply and elegantly without resorting to magical explanations for why the sun doesn't shoot off at a tangent instead of continuing its strange circular path for no reason at all.
Flat Earthers say you simply have to accept it and that the moon is just a flat image and the stars nearby luminaries. But shooting stars and craters on the moon and Earth and the different stars in the southern hemisphere tells us a different story. Why not simply accept the story that the construct is conveying to us every single day, month and year that goes by.
I'm writing a flat earth novel later this year called Miranda the Panda complete with extended outer worlds beyond the ice wall and god like alien creators. Obviously it's just for fun but you never know... might kick off a new wave of interest in this subject.
Flat earth novel! Very keen to check that out when it completes itself.
I accept that the globe model explains (mostly) the movements and changes of the luminaries (I don't think I could even accept that the sun just happens to be at the exact millions of miles away so as to be perfectly eclipsed by the moon, which is why it makes more sense that they are both local and in direct proportion). I find Tycho Brahe's geocentric model very interesting, and useful as a hybrid position between both sides. I know he has apparently been debunked but he at least produced his theories based on a highly advanced process of direct observation.
Ultimately, I don't think we are here to get to the bottom of what shape our home planet is. There are far more urgent tasks at hand!
Just to add about the relative positions of planets and so on. Obviously there appears to be some trickery going on with the numbers involved but the rest makes sense to me in terms of objects settling down into states and patterns until equilibrium is achieved much like water settling into a state of "flatness" when viewed from a human perspective but a wider view would show curvature.
We're told that the moon is rotationaly locked with the Earth so that we always see the same side. I always struggled with that one! Why would the moon and supposedly other moons in the solar system settle down into that pattern?
And we happen to exist at the perfect moment in time for all of this to be just so.
I'll accept whatever the truth is when we reach a definite conclusion. And if that's not possible then at least we tried.
Moon conspiracies (Lunarcies) are my absolute favourite. I'm convinced that it is a key part of the control system and "negatively" orientated, so to speak: there seems to be a consistent narrative through ancient mythology that it is not a natural object and was placed as it is for nefarious reasons. Maybe both sides can start there - as fellow lunartics - and expand to a more unified cosmology.
That's pure lunacy! But I'll take it.
Oh I think it's of utmost importance! If we can't even solve this little riddle then what else do we think we know about our existence without really knowing it. We have been indoctrinated about so many things since day one and here we are now expecting to unravel all the more important mysteries when we're not even sure about the surface we stand on.
I would like to see independent scientists, engineers, amateur astronomers battle this topic out until we have definitive, undeniable proof for the whole world to see.
I would like to see the same happen for the topic of virology and germ theory.
Then we could repeat the process with nuclear weapons.
And who or what is truly behind the agenda that is now so openly unfolding.
And so on and so forth.
Imagine a world where these topics and many others are cleared up once and for all and then we can focus on a deeper level of understanding through meditation, improving health and basic living conditions for all.
The problem I foresee is that millions or billions of people could or would most likely lose their will to engage with the system that has been built around us. Many would prefer to drop out and live simpler lives (if that is even possible at that stage).
I can certainly imagine another outcome where the evolution of our technology takes center stage and leaves pesky humans in the dust. I am all for the automation of undesirable work. At the moment it looks like that path leads to dystopian hell on Earth but maybe that's just another boogeyman to get us to react in a more positive fashion.
What I don't like is being played in that way as if we're being tested. The next generation appear to love their techno slavery and very few question anything at all so I'm not even sure what we're supposed to be fighting for here other than getting personal kicks out of being a bit rebellious.
The Flat Earth thing is most certainly a psyop, I offered a substantial monetary prize to ANYONE who could overcome my proof that it is not FLAT to an independent panel of VERY brilliant people . No one e took me up on the offer . Ive flown over the N. POLE , Ive been out of my body and seen the earth from that perspective as well , it aint flat. I have had military friends show me similar TRAINING PSYOPS they had to create.
I've had out of body experiences too. Not sure I would use that as proof that the world is a ball but who knows, maybe it's more reliable than other methods I don't have access to.
What was your proof that the earth is not flat? Or is it a trade secret?
I want to tackle other truther religious beliefs such as chemtrails but it's really hard to find solid debunking material that is not produced by true believers in mainstream scientism. Chemtrailers dismiss scientific explanations for contrail phenomena based on where the info is coming from.
People also believe that demolitions were used on 9/11. I don't. There's no evidence to back that claim but it's a popular truther belief that sticks around.
Nuclear weapons don't exist IMO so that could be another topic to cover.
I also think pathogenic viruses are another fiction created to manipulate people with fear.
Hopefully one day we'll have the answers to all of these questions. I agree with you that panels of very knowledgeable people should battle it out face to face instead of internet warriors jumping to conclusions that are more often than not completely unfounded.